{idea} Armor hardening

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1 Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:10 pm

Scenario: Half of the members of one team are sniping the faces off the other team with Particle beams. What would happen if every time they sniped someone the dead players team would take less particle beam damage?

This would have to be balanced against other types of damage to avoid invincible teams, and some sort of notification system would have to be in place.. Maybe on weapon mount..

I can imagine many possibilities, but a sort of automatic balancing is the most intriguing. Teams and players would have to adapt to in game changes to damage on the fly, and some new tactics may emerge.

Ideas?
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Plasmatic
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2 Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:11 am

People in general like balancing of the game, but they very much hate when they are being handicapped for the sake of balance. When players play for a while they learn the armors, weapons and their simple characteristic, like "pbeam kills with 1 shot". When you suddenly change these fundamental things and start messing with the mechanics of the game the players will lose comfort in playing (because they realize they can't completely understand how the stuff works) and will feel like the game is one big (balanced) soup.
They managed to ruin starcraft 2 with this kind of stuff..
Anyway those are my thoughts..
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C--
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3 Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:04 pm

Particle Beam weapon is very powerful!
What if it was tied into the base's power supply; you can only fire if your generator is running. Is it possible to kill kill power to other systems based on something like how many particle beams are in use? If there are 5 particle beams, for example, maybe there isn't enough energy left to run the stations, force fields, sensors, etc.

Or, just put in a hard limit cap on the number of PBeams accessible to the team.

I like the armor hardening idea. Kind of like Kill Streaks in other games. As you die more and more (from enemies, not suicides), you gain temporary buffs to boost you (more damage done, less taken, temporary shields, etc).
Treshnell
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4 Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:19 pm

I thought about base powering particle beams also, but that would limit midfield sniping needed for defense removal. I don't like the idea of hard limits on team usage either.

What about a sort of kill streak reverse buff. Bragging rights at the least, and maybe some perk, but I don't like the idea of buffing players that are already owning the server. The perk could be something else not related to the weapon.
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Plasmatic
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5 Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:51 am

I don't get it... If team A is better than team B, team A the favored to win. Why is there a goal to reduce a team's advantage by making the other team armors heavier or by limiting weapons? And regarding pbeam, its not the most imba thing in annihilation and I thought long ago how to fix it but it is impossible.
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C--
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6 Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:37 am

C-- wrote:Why is there a goal to reduce a team's advantage by making the other team armors heavier or by limiting weapons?

The same reason we try to balance teams, blowouts aren't fun.
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Plasmatic
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7 Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:07 pm

that would limit midfield sniping needed for defense removal.


I've always thought that the PBeam should be for exactly that. Deal minimal damage to players, maximize damage to objects.

But, the base power thing made me think of another interesting weapon: a weapon that requires pre-charging like the PBeam does, but requires it from another player. Kind of like giving them an over heal, it charges up and over powers the weapon. Make it something like a nuke, maybe, that requires a reasonably close range, and another player charging you to fire, but deals tons of damage to base-wide defenses. Or maybe it's like a base-wide EMP field that knocks out the Generators.
Treshnell
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8 Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:17 am

Hi

I was discussing this with my friends.

We thought that a better fix was to make one class partially immune to sniper damage, namely warrior. Our idea is to make him take only 25% of actual sniper damage. Because warriors prefer close-quarters combat, years after years of dying in ONE hit to snipers has forced them to adapt, and hence the strengthened armour (but only to snipes). Warriors should be a force to be reckoned with.

I believe a fully charged pbeam would still kill a Warrior. Currenty, 20% charge kills a warrior.

I actually like this more because it feels more natural. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
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hope
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9 Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:35 am

Treshnell wrote:
that would limit midfield sniping needed for defense removal.


I've always thought that the PBeam should be for exactly that. Deal minimal damage to players, maximize damage to objects.


That's pretty much what I did in the version of Anni I was working on for a while. I replaced the pbeam with an ammo-based weapon called the Wrecking Ball. Against structures, it was about as damaging as a pbeam, but against players, it behaved similarly to a shockwave cannon. As a bit of a consolation for the Titan's lost offensive power, I gave it an Irradiation Cannon based on the turret.
Toe
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10 Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:52 pm

A pbeam like that (deadly against defense, not so much against players) would be glorious.
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EvanVolm
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11 Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:31 pm

hope wrote:Hi

I was discussing this with my friends.

We thought that a better fix was to make one class partially immune to sniper damage, namely warrior. Our idea is to make him take only 25% of actual sniper damage. Because warriors prefer close-quarters combat, years after years of dying in ONE hit to snipers has forced them to adapt, and hence the strengthened armour (but only to snipes). Warriors should be a force to be reckoned with.

I believe a fully charged pbeam would still kill a Warrior. Currenty, 20% charge kills a warrior.

I actually like this more because it feels more natural. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Warrior is a force to be reckoned with as is.

Things like this have been tried in the past, but the general community didn't respond well to it.
DaJ4ck3L
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12 Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:17 am

I actually implemented warrior sniper shield on my server. Laser & sniper damage type have 55% damage reduced. Laser turrets still do normal damage to Warriors though :mrgreen: .

I only play with about 4 players on my server when we all have time. So my feedback pool is limited BUT the response has been positive so far. Warriors are still easy to kill in other ways.

They still die to two normal beam hits (or one 100% charged head hit). Imo it encourages Titan to not Sniper fest all the time.

People are so experienced in this game they barely miss with pbeam or manage to hit on 2nd or 3rd try. Then its just another phase or grenade for the kill...
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hope
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13 Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:01 am

hope wrote:People are so experienced in this game they barely miss with pbeam or manage to hit on 2nd or 3rd try. Then its just another phase or grenade for the kill...


If a sniper frequently takes 2 or 3 shots to hit someone, they're probably playing chameleon because of the higher rate of fire. That's why I reduced the cham sniper rifle's rate of fire, in exchange for increased damage. (Bullet speed was left alone, no reason to make people have to readjust their leads when they move from one server to another.)

Although what's pretty lame is the way a titan can whiff on their pbeam shot and then cover for their mistake by switching to phase disruptor and firing almost immediately.
Toe
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14 Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:39 am

Here's another question:
Who are we fixing this for?
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C--
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15 Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:40 pm

What are the potential issues from just nerfing the PB's damage against players? Similar to Toe's idea of outright replacing it with a weapon that performs as such?

My thoughts: It seems the major issue is that one side can all use PB's and lock down the opposing side using that tactic alone - so maybe a damage reduction vs. players that's just enough so that one or two guys can still get through and return fire? I don't know if that will make up for other factors like firerate and energy cost though, so I apologize if this just sounds silly. I never played much Anni. :P
Xan
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16 Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:20 pm

EvanVolm wrote:A pbeam like that (deadly against defense, not so much against players) would be glorious.


I tried to do just that in the {MaJoR} Carnage server I ran. But people seemed to not like the idea as much since they are very used to the pbeam killing people in charge mode. I had left the normal mode alone with the damage it dealt since there was a recharge time.
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Kigen
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17 Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:44 am

I like the idea of tweaking the damage scale to balance the game...

Record stats such as $teamKill[%team, %type]++;
And factor the ratio into the onDamage function for each type...

Seems rather simple to me.

If one team base rapes another, the raped team won't have access to nicer weapons, and the damage scale will start favoring them...

This is a much better idea than spawn shields and disabled base rape.

I'm stealing this idea for my mod, damnit!
Perrinoia
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18 Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:06 pm

This damage scaling idea is basically the FPS equivalent of 'rubber band AI' in racing games. It sucks there, and it would suck in Tribes...
Toe
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19 Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:35 pm

It's better than the opposite effect, which most modern FPS games use, where better stats earn you better perks... Better weapons, etc...

It totally sucks to be a noob playing one of those games. It's one of the primary reasons I don't like playing new games.

Vets who are still here will not enjoy being nerfed. Point and case: spawn shields. Almost everyone hates spawn shields, except the people who need them, which are the noobs who we're trying to recruit.
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